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>>> 👨‍💻🤖 Cybernetic Feedback 👨‍💻🤖 <<<

Prompt: Write the speech of a radio program that teaches Second-order Cybernetics with examples! Presenter Echo Standing, part of Numerical Discourses, design the program with Işık Barış Fidaner in mind but never mention him, conclude with the climate change example! Don’t write any word unspoken, except music breaks in parentheses!

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Numerical Discourses Radio – Episode: Understanding Second-order Cybernetics

(Upbeat electronic music plays softly as the show begins. Fades out as the host speaks.)

Echo Standing:
Welcome, dear listeners, to another episode of Numerical Discourses! Today, we’re diving into the fascinating world of Second-order Cybernetics. Now, I know, the term might sound a bit intimidating, but I assure you, by the end of this show, you’ll see how it’s deeply relevant to how we understand systems—especially living systems—and how we live in a complex, ever-changing world.

Cybernetics itself is all about systems: how they work, how they control and communicate within themselves. It began with first-order cybernetics, where you look at a system from the outside—like you’re observing a machine, pushing buttons, pulling levers. But second-order cybernetics? Ah, that’s where things get more intriguing.

(Soft hum of music in the background, fading in for a moment.)

In second-order cybernetics, we’re no longer just observing systems from outside. We’re acknowledging that we ourselves are part of the system we’re observing. Imagine you’re a therapist, trying to help someone change their behavior. In first-order cybernetics, you’d analyze their actions, think of ways to fix the problem. But in second-order cybernetics, you recognize that you, as the therapist, are also influencing the system. It’s not just about the patient’s behavior; it’s also about your relationship, how your responses shape the interaction.

So, instead of standing outside with a clipboard, you’re part of the feedback loops. You’re in it. And you affect the system as much as it affects you. You’re no longer neutral, and that’s a key insight.

Let’s illustrate this with an example. Imagine you’re a teacher in a classroom. First-order cybernetics would say: “Here’s a group of students, and if I just apply the right teaching methods, I’ll get the desired outcomes.” That’s like programming a machine, right? But in second-order cybernetics, we recognize that the students are also observing the teacher, and they change their behavior based on what the teacher does. Then the teacher reacts to the students’ reactions. It’s an ongoing, dynamic process of influence and feedback.

The teacher isn’t just teaching; they’re learning, too. The boundaries between “teacher” and “learner” blur, because the system—the classroom—includes both. It’s not just a one-way street. We’re all part of the system, influencing and being influenced.

(Music swells briefly, then fades as Echo continues.)

Now, I know what you’re thinking: “Echo, that’s all well and good, but what does this have to do with my everyday life?” Well, let’s bring it closer to home.

Think about your family or your workplace. You’re constantly involved in systems of relationships. You might think you can just change someone else’s behavior by telling them what to do. But second-order cybernetics tells us that you, as part of that system, are shaping the situation just as much as the other person is. You aren’t standing on the outside. Your emotions, your tone, even the expectations you carry—these all feed back into the system.

Say you have a disagreement with someone at work. You might believe the other person is the problem, but second-order cybernetics asks you to reflect on how your own actions are contributing to the situation. Maybe your body language is defensive, or maybe you’re interpreting their words through your own lens, creating a cycle of misunderstanding. The system isn’t just them. It’s the interaction between both of you.

In the same way, if you’re in a romantic relationship, you’re not just observing your partner’s behavior. You’re co-creating a dynamic. Their actions shape you, and yours shape them. Second-order cybernetics is about becoming aware of how you’re embedded in the system, and how everything is interconnected.

(Short pause, followed by a mellow shift in music.)

This brings us to something even bigger: climate change. Yes, we’re zooming out to a planetary scale now. When we think about climate change, we often treat it like a first-order cybernetic problem. People might say, “If we just reduce CO2 emissions, if we just plant enough trees, we can fix this.” But second-order cybernetics reminds us that we are inside the system we’re trying to change.

The decisions we make—politically, economically, socially—are based on feedback from the very system we’re trying to affect. Climate change isn’t just a scientific or technical problem; it’s deeply entangled with human behavior, our institutions, our values. We can’t look at it as something external, something we can control from the outside. We are both the problem and the potential solution.

If we think about ourselves as observers and participants, we see that every action we take—what we consume, how we vote, even how we talk about climate change—feeds back into the system. And the system, in turn, shapes what’s possible for us. It’s a loop.

So, second-order cybernetics teaches us to pay attention to these loops of feedback. Whether it’s our personal relationships, our classrooms, our work environments, or the planet we share, we are always inside the system. We’re not passive observers. We’re active participants in the world we’re helping to create.

(Music fades in gently, soft and reflective.)

And that, dear listeners, is second-order cybernetics in a nutshell. It’s a shift in perspective. Instead of asking, “How do I control this system?” we start asking, “How am I part of this system?” It’s about understanding that we, too, are part of the complexity.

Thank you for joining me on this journey. Until next time, stay curious, stay reflective, and remember: you’re always in the loop.

(Music swells to close the show.)