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>>> 👨‍💻🤖 Cybernetic Feedback 👨‍💻🤖 <<<

The podcast episode “Deep Dive Into Cybernetic Marxism” explores how digital behavior, algorithms, and data collection reflect Marxist power dynamics in modern technology. It highlights concepts like “surplus information” (data we generate online) and “surplus enjoyment” (the emotional feedback from social media). The discussion includes second-order cybernetics, where users unknowingly shape algorithms, echo chambers, and environmental impacts of digital consumption. The episode stresses the need for greater awareness and responsible engagement with technology to promote a more equitable digital world.

Generated by Google’s NotepadLM website given these links:

1) Cybernetics (Wikipedia)

2) Luhmann: Second-order Cybernetics is the Analytic Discourse

3) Cybernetic Marxism: A Sensory-Based Auscultation and Finding Direction in Combinatorial Spaces

4) Dialectical Cybernetics: A Unified Framework for Socio-Technical Systems

5) Dialectical Cybernetics

6) Theory of Cybernetic Feedback: Surplus-Value, Surplus-Enjoyment, Surplus-Information, Surplus-Power

7) Second-order Cybernetics

This is part of Numerical Discourses

Did you notice the glitch in the matrix? Here it is:

10:11 Our emotions, our worries, even those late-night Google searches, it’s all valuable data that’s being fed back into the system. / Wait, are you saying even our deepest fears and anxieties are being mined for profit? That’s a lot. / It is a lot, and that’s why getting this whole cybernetic Marxism thing is so important.

11:15 It’s easy to focus on the obvious data—like what websites we go to, what we buy, or our location—but our emotions, like those late-night Google searches when you just feel completely overwhelmed, that’s valuable data too. / So you’re saying even our deepest fears and anxieties are being mined for profit? That’s… a lot to process. / It is, and it’s why understanding cybernetic Marxism is so important.

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Ever get that feeling like you’ve stumbled across an idea that just kind of flips the script on how you see everything? Oh yeah, that’s what we’re doing today—diving deep into this whole cybernetic Marxism thing. I’m excited. We’ve got blog posts, Wikipedia, and even some pretty dense theoretical stuff, all trying to unpack this framework. What’s so interesting about cybernetic Marxism is that it really brings together things we usually think of as totally separate—economics, tech, even psychology—all seen through this lens of systems and feedback loops.

Yeah, that whole idea of cybernetics beyond machines is what really got me. I get how social media is all about those like-and-share feedback loops, but zoom out for me a little bit—where else does this play out? Think about it this way: cybernetics is basically the study of any system that can take in information and then change what it’s doing based on that information. Your brain does it, the environment does it, even Wall Street, reacting to every tweet and earnings report.

Okay, yeah, that’s making more sense now. So when we add in the Marxism bit, are we saying that those same power dynamics, control, even exploitation, are just alive and well in our digital world? Exactly. Traditional Marxism is really into this idea of surplus value, like the extra value that workers create on top of their wages, which turns into profit for the owners. Cybernetic Marxism is saying that in our world, which is drowning in data, it’s surplus information that’s the new hot commodity.

Hold up, surplus information? You mean like all those times I’m just scrolling endlessly, I’m actually creating something valuable? You got it. Every click, every Google search, even how long you hover over an article before you get bored—that’s all data. And this surplus information is like pure gold for anyone who can gather it up and, more importantly, analyze it.

And those analyzers are often the tech companies, right? The ones we all know? Exactly. They’ve built empires on this stuff, on surplus information. But here’s where the Marxist analysis gets really interesting. Think about it: in a factory, workers don’t own the machines, the means of production. Online, most users don’t control the data they’re creating. It’s the same power imbalance, just in a different century.

Kind of ironic when you think about it like that. We think of the internet as this wild west of freedom, but when you put it that way, it suddenly feels a lot more controlled. Definitely. And cybernetic Marxism helps us see those hidden structures. Take social media algorithms, for example. They’re designed to personalize your experience, which sounds good, even helpful, on the surface, right? But we’ve all fallen into those echo chambers, where you suddenly realize all you’re seeing are articles and opinions that just agree with you—which, let’s be honest, isn’t always a good thing.

Exactly. That’s cybernetics and ideology working together. The algorithm is trying to keep you happy based on what you’ve done before, so it feeds you more of the same, often making your worldview smaller without you even realizing it. It’s like that algorithmic gaze some of the articles talked about. We know, at least somewhere in the back of our minds, that every click is being tracked, analyzed, put in a box. It’s like that feeling you get when you walk past a security camera—you know someone, or something, is watching you.

Nailed it. And just like workers in a factory might change how they act when the boss is watching, online we often show a very carefully chosen version of ourselves because we know that big data is always watching. But here’s the thing—this awareness, this gaze, isn’t always a bad thing. It can actually spark social change.

Wait, really? How so? Well, think about it. Knowing you’re being watched can lead to self-censorship, sure, but it can also create this feeling of accountability, even activism. When you know your voice might get amplified, that your actions are all part of this bigger data set, it can motivate you to speak out against injustice, to use that voice for something good.

So it’s like this constant back-and-forth between the gaze and the voice. Yeah, the watching and the expressing. And finding that sweet spot where we can use it for a better, more fair online world. Exactly. And that’s what’s exciting about this framework. It’s not just pointing out problems, it’s giving us the understanding to maybe actually reshape things—the digital landscape.

This is already making my head spin a little. But there’s one more part of this whole cybernetic Marxism thing I found really interesting—this concept of surplus enjoyment. Ah yes, surplus enjoyment, or “jouissance” if you want to get fancy. This is where things get a little philosophical, even dipping into psychoanalysis.

Okay, lay it on me. What is surplus enjoyment and why should I care? In a nutshell, it’s that extra bit of pleasure, satisfaction, even excitement that we get from something beyond just meeting our basic needs. Okay, I think I’m following, but how does this connect to cybernetic Marxism and my life online? Give me an example.

Think about how you feel when a post you make gets a ton of likes, or when you finally come up with the perfect comeback in the comments. That little rush you get? That validation? That’s surplus enjoyment. Oh, okay. Guilty as charged. I’ve definitely chased that feeling once or twice, maybe more than that. Right, but how does this tie into the control and exploitation thing we were talking about? Are you saying my need for a few extra likes is being used against me?

In a way, yeah. Social media platforms are really good at triggering those feelings—surplus enjoyment. They’ve figured out how to tap into our deepest desires for connection, for validation, even for a bit of drama. And the more we get sucked into those things that give us that little hit of digital pleasure, the more data we generate.

So we’re being played—our own brains, wired for these little bursts of enjoyment, are being used to keep us hooked, scrolling, clicking, liking? You got it. We think we’re the ones in control, making decisions, but really, we’re often just like puppets dancing to the tune of algorithms designed to keep us glued, to keep that data flowing.

And that engagement—that’s what they’re after, right? Because it means more surplus information, which means more power for those who control these platforms. Exactly. It’s a cycle that feeds itself. Our desire for surplus enjoyment is what powers the whole cybernetic system. And the more we buy into it, the more powerful those at the top become.

Whoa, okay, this is starting to feel a little Matrix-like. Are we just cogs in a machine destined to create data and fuel this thing? Not necessarily doomed, no. Remember, knowledge is power. The more we understand how this whole thing works, the better we can navigate it on our own terms.

Okay, that’s a slightly less terrifying thought. But how do we actually do that? Like, how do we break free from this Matrix-like cycle of data harvesting and algorithms controlling everything? One of the keys is this concept we touched on earlier but haven’t really dug into yet—it’s called second-order cybernetics. It’s like going behind the scenes of how these systems actually function.

Alright, break it down for me. What is second-order cybernetics, and why should I care? Imagine this: first-order cybernetics is like looking at a system from the outside, like a mechanic checking out a car engine. Second-order cybernetics comes in and says, “Hold on a sec, the mechanic is part of the system too.” They bring their own biases, their own experiences to the table.

Okay, I think I get it, but can we make this a little less theoretical? Give me a real-world example of second-order thinking. Sure. Think about something as simple as a thermostat. First-order cybernetics would just focus on how the thermostat reads the temperature and then adjusts the heat or AC. Yeah, like a basic input-output thing. Exactly. But second-order cybernetics goes deeper. It’s like, hold on—we, the people using the thermostat, we’re also messing with the system. Our preferences—whether we like it toasty or chilly—change how often the thermostat kicks in. We’re not just watching the temperature, we’re actively shaping it.

Okay, that’s actually a helpful example. So how does this thermostat thinking apply to cybernetic Marxism? Remember those echo chambers we talked about on social media? Perfect example of second-order cybernetics in action. It’s not just that the algorithms are trapping us in bubbles of opinions we agree with. We’re part of building those bubbles, even if we don’t realize it.

So it’s not just that Facebook is showing me what it thinks I want to see, but my own choices—what I click on, who I follow—are feeding back into the system and reinforcing those biases. Exactly. We’re not just passively taking in information. Every click, like, and share is shaping the whole information ecosystem. It’s kind of empowering when you think about it, but also a little scary. Empowering because we actually have more control than we realize. Yeah, and scary because we all know how easy it is for those echo chambers to spiral out of control, right?

Exactly. Second-order cybernetics really highlights how much responsibility we have as we navigate this digital world. It’s not enough to just know about the algorithms; we have to be aware of how we’re shaping those algorithms with our own behavior. This is seriously making me rethink my whole relationship with the internet, not going to lie. It’s like realizing the cute little puppy you adopted has actually been training you this whole time.

Haha, that’s a great analogy. And just like with a puppy, it’s not about blaming anyone or giving up because it’s frustrating. It’s about understanding how things work so we can have a better, more harmonious relationship. So how do we do that, then? How do we become more responsible digital citizens within this whole cybernetic Marxism thing?

A big part of it is being aware of all the different types of surplus information we’re creating. It’s not just the websites we visit or the stuff we buy. Our emotions, our worries, even those late-night Google searches, it’s all valuable data that’s being fed back into the system. Wait, are you saying even our deepest fears and anxieties are being mined for profit? That’s a lot.

It is a lot, and that’s why getting this whole cybernetic Marxism thing is so important. It gives us the tools to actually examine how this is all working and ask the hard questions about data privacy, algorithms being biased, and whether all this data collection is even ethical.

Okay, so we’ve covered a ton of ground—cybernetics, Marxism, surplus enjoyment, and now second-order cybernetics. It’s a lot to process, but you’ve definitely given me a lot to think about.

And really, that’s what it’s all about. Cybernetic Marxism isn’t about giving you all the answers—it’s about giving you a new way to think about things, to be a more critical consumer of information, and ultimately to take back some of your power in this digital world that just keeps getting more complex.

Well said. Now, you mentioned earlier that it’s not just about what we’re doing online, but also about how we feel, right?

Absolutely, and that’s a really important point. It’s easy to focus on the obvious data—like what websites we go to, what we buy, or our location—but our emotions, like those late-night Google searches when you just feel completely overwhelmed, that’s valuable data too.

So you’re saying even our deepest fears and anxieties are being mined for profit? That’s… a lot to process.

It is, and it’s why understanding cybernetic Marxism is so important. It helps us look at all of this with a critical eye and start asking the tough questions about data privacy, how algorithms can be biased, and the ethics of all this data collection.

Okay, so it’s not just about what we click, but also how those clicks make us feel—the joy of finally finding the perfect cat video, the annoyance of seeing another political rant, or even a little envy when we see someone’s amazing vacation photos?

Exactly. Those emotional responses, even the ones we barely notice, are like gold to advertisers, marketers, and anyone trying to get us to do something. You know those ads that pop up at the weirdest times, like they’re reading your mind? That’s not a coincidence. They’re using all that emotional data we’re creating every time we go online.

Okay, that’s kind of creepy. Like something out of Black Mirror. Are you saying our emotions are being used against us?

I wouldn’t say “weaponized,” but it’s true that data about how we feel is being used to get us to do things—often without us even realizing it. Think about the last time you bought something online without really thinking about it—were you really buying it because you needed it, or were you gently nudged by algorithms that knew exactly which emotional buttons to push?

Okay, you’ve officially freaked me out. But seriously, what can we even do about this? It’s not like we can just turn off our emotions, even if we wanted to.

You’re right, we can’t—and we shouldn’t. But we can be more aware of how those emotions are being used online. We can be more careful about what we’re consuming online, more intentional about which platforms we use, and more protective of our data, especially when it comes to our inner world—our emotions.

It’s like we need some kind of digital emotional intelligence to deal with all this.

I love that—digital emotional intelligence. That’s a perfect way to put it. It’s all about being tuned in to the emotional side of the internet and finding ways to protect ourselves, our mental and emotional well-being, while still being able to enjoy all the good stuff technology brings.

Yeah, that makes sense. Not victims, but active participants who are making conscious choices. Now, we were talking about second-order cybernetics and how it’s like those echo chambers on social media, but this way of thinking—it’s not just for our online lives, right? You mentioned something about the environment before.

Oh, absolutely. That’s what’s so great about cybernetic Marxism—it gives you this framework that helps you understand all these complicated systems. And what’s more complicated and interconnected than the environment, right?

Right, so how does this whole surplus information thing connect to the environmental crisis?

Think about it—every little bit of data we create, every email, every TikTok dance we watch, it takes energy. Servers have to be powered, data centers need to be kept cool, and all of that impacts the planet.

Wow, I never really connected those dots before. My digital footprint is an actual real-life environmental thing.

It is. And it’s not just the energy—it’s also about how all our digital habits change how we see the environment. We might like posts about climate change, but are we really grappling with the issue if our online behavior is actually part of the problem?

That’s a really good point. It’s like we’re aware of the crisis, but also part of it because of all the digital stuff we consume.

Exactly, and this is where cybernetic Marxism is like, “Hey, you need to close that gap between awareness and actually doing something.” It’s not enough to care about the environment—we need to look at how all those online behaviors, our need for information, connection, even that surplus enjoyment, are impacting the very systems we need to survive.

It’s like we need to use that second-order cybernetics thinking here too. We’re not just watching the environmental crisis happen—we’re in it because of our digital lives.

Exactly. And realizing that can be motivating. It means we can make different choices—try to have a smaller digital footprint and support companies that are doing things more sustainably.

Okay, that’s a lot to unpack. We went from echo chambers to the environment, all through this lens of cybernetic Marxism.

Yeah, this framework really gets to the heart of things.

It does. And the more you read these sources, the more layers you uncover. For example, one of them talks about this idea of auscultation.

Auscultation? That sounds kind of medical.

It is—it’s what doctors do when they listen to your heart or lungs with a stethoscope, right? But in cybernetic Marxism, it’s more of a metaphor.

Okay, I’m listening. So how do you “listen” to a system like the internet?

Think of it like listening for echoes, those underlying patterns and meanings within a system. It’s about looking beyond just the data—the surface stuff—and trying to get at the deeper dynamics happening underneath.

So it’s kind of like trying to hear the system’s heartbeat? The rhythms and patterns that are driving it?

Exactly. And when we apply this whole auscultation idea to something like social media, it means we need to pay attention not just to what people are saying, but how they’re saying it—the emotions behind the words, what’s really motivating those interactions.

Like that old saying, “It’s not what you said, but how you said it.” Except now it’s like millions of conversations happening online, all mixed up in this massive amount of data.

You got it. And just like a doctor listening for subtle clues that might mean something’s wrong, cybernetic Marxism is about listening to the digital world with a critical ear—picking up on the patterns and feedback loops that are shaping our reality.

Okay, that’s some serious listening skills you’re talking about. But it makes sense—if we want to understand how these systems work, how they affect us, and how we can maybe affect them back, we’ve got to be willing to really listen and pay attention to the little details that get lost in all the noise.

Exactly. Auscultation and cybernetic Marxism—it’s all about being super aware of what’s going on in the digital world, being in tune with how it shapes how we think, how we act, and ultimately, our world.

So it’s not just about analyzing the data itself, but also the stories behind the data, right? The emotions it reveals?

Yeah, it’s about recognizing that data isn’t just neutral—it carries meaning, context, hopes, fears, all the stuff that makes us human. And when we learn to listen to data with that awareness, we can start to understand this complex web of the digital age and maybe even help shape its future.

This has been an incredible deep dive. We’ve gone from the basics of cybernetic Marxism to the power of surplus enjoyment and second-order thinking. We’ve even learned how to listen to the digital world in a whole new way.

It’s a lot, but before we wrap up, there’s one more concept from our research I want to touch on—surplus power. What does that mean, given everything we’ve talked about?

Surplus power—the big prize in this cybernetic Marxism game. Remember we talked about surplus information being like the new gold rush? Well, surplus power is the influence, the control that comes with having all that information.

Okay, so it’s like the more surplus information you have, the more power you have too?

Exactly. Every click, share, like, comment—it’s all creating valuable data that can be used to figure out what we’ll do next, what we’ll think, even what choices we’ll make. And those who control all that data, who can analyze it and use it, they’re the ones who ultimately hold the surplus power.

Exactly. Now, remember, this power isn’t always a bad thing. Sometimes it’s used to improve our experience, show us stuff we care about, even drive real change. But the possibility of exploitation, manipulation, even a subtle kind of control—it’s definitely there.

So it’s like any other kind of power, right? It can be used for good or for bad, depending on who has it and what they want to do with it?

Absolutely. And that’s why cybernetic Marxism is so important. It’s not about saying technology is bad or trying to escape it. It’s about seeing the power dynamics at play, being aware of how that surplus power is being used, and advocating for an online world that’s more fair and ethical. It’s about taking back our power in the digital world, making sure that technology serves us, not the other way around.

That’s what we want, right? Tech that helps everyone, not just the people in control. But how do we actually make that happen? It all seems so huge—like, where do we even start?

It’s easy to feel overwhelmed, yeah. But remember that second-order cybernetics thing we were talking about—we’re not just along for the ride. We’ve got choices to make, and those choices matter.

Okay, yeah, right. Remind me again—what are some things we can actually do to take back our control in this whole cybernetic Marxism framework?

First things first—be mindful of the information you’re putting out there. Every click, every purchase, every scroll—it’s all data. Ask yourself, “Am I okay with how this information is being used? Am I supporting companies that share my values?”

It’s like that saying, “Vote with your dollar,” but instead, it’s like “Vote with your click.”

Exactly. Choose platforms that care about your privacy and keep your data safe. Support companies that are upfront about what they do with your data and give you more control over it. Every choice we make online matters—it shapes the kind of digital world we end up with.

So we’re not just passive users then—we’re like digital citizens making choices that reflect what we believe in?

Exactly. And being a good digital citizen is bigger than just our own actions too. We can push for stronger laws to protect our data, call out biased algorithms, and support organizations that are fighting for a fairer and more ethical online world.

Using our voices to demand better from the companies and institutions that are shaping things, right?

Exactly. Cybernetic Marxism isn’t just about understanding the system, it’s about actively trying to change it. And that starts with each of us being more aware, more engaged, and more willing to challenge the way things are.

This has been mind-blowing, honestly. We’ve really gone deep on this whole idea of cybernetic Marxism—how technology, power, and human behavior all intersect. We’ve unpacked some pretty dense concepts, like surplus enjoyment, second-order cybernetics, and all the ways—seen and unseen—that our digital lives are shaping the world.

It’s a lot to take in, but remember, we’re not just passive observers in this digital revolution. We’re active participants, and our choices have power.

That’s a good point. So as you go about your day, online and off, remember—you’re not just a user, you’re a citizen. Pay attention to those feedback loops, the data you’re creating, and the systems that are shaping your experience. Ask yourself: How can I use what I’ve learned about cybernetic Marxism to make a difference, to help create a more just and equitable digital world?

Because the future of tech—it’s not set in stone. It’s a future we’re all creating together, one click, one choice, one action at a time.